Reading the minds of DTC Customers, why & how? with Saurabh Choudhary
Reading the minds of DTC Customers, why & how? with Saurabh Choudhary

Reading the minds of DTC Customers, why & how? with Saurabh Choudhary

The more DTC brand’s understand customers’ psychology, the better they can communicate with them. We dive into the same with Saurabh Choudhary, India's first marketing psychology specialist and also the author of psycho marketing.

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The more DTC brand’s understand customers’ psychology, the better they can communicate with them. We dive into the same with Saurabh Choudhary, India's first marketing psychology specialist and also the author of psycho marketing.

Key Takeaways

  1. Basics of psychology DTC entrepreneurs should specifically understand.
  2. How to understand and leverage the customer purchase decision-making process?
  3. How do you design your ad's using psychology for better ROAS?
  4. What triggers customers to return to buy from your store and how to build the retention funnels?

Saurabh Choudhary: Building trust towards brands works in how we are able to understand and acknowledge those pain points. The second point, what's what DTC brands should understand is to make it relatable to the customer. We need to understand what people want and add, or any communication that goes out from a brand people should relate to is easy talking to me.

 Aashish: Let's go on a DTC drive with Saurabh Choudhary. He is India's first marketing psychology specialist and also the author of psycho marketing. He has trained around 5,000 plus eCommerce professionals and has a decade-long experience in marketing. What got you into DTC in the first space and let's talk a bit about psychology? Why did you choose psychology? What made you want to choose psychology and make it a life of your own?

 Saurabh Choudhary: These are two questions. I'll answer separately. The first is about DTC. Basically, I started selling online in 2003. That was the time when I was engrossed in the internet. I was doing my engineering and during that time, the internet was very less compared to today. Everybody had their hand devices at that time.

I remember that time. We used to go to cyber cafes, paying hundreds of rues an hour. Thankfully I had the internet in my school much before. I mean, 98 was when I was introduced to the internet and then gradually moved on to how I can get into it. So I started reading books. I started understanding, started learning, and then came across a term called freelancer.

I mean, at that time it was really new for me sitting at your place, working for somebody. In some other part of the globe when you're making money out of it. So I started working as a freelancer. I started as a web designer. I started putting websites and then by 2003, I was selling on eBay. I used to drop ships using Amazon E and eBay.

So that's when my e-commerce journey started. Yes. At that time there were no individual store people in India, especially for people who had no idea how people could buy things online. You know, you just get it. So that's when it started. And as my career progressed, I came into digital marketing and started working with various brands, helping them in their social media, in their paid ad campaigns on social media, as well as on Google.

And since 2011, I've been working full-time on this. It's basically DTC's a combination of what you can call a perfect sum of marketing as well as selling. So two of my favorite interests combined and DTC is what I live every day. I live and breathe that coming to your second question. Well, I did not choose psychology.

Psychology chose. so it was during 2012 when I was also working as a freelance content writer. During that time, I got one project from one of my friends who said that this is a thesis of some US student who wants to get their paper written. And for that, they'll pay good money. Something which I never did before, I used to write articles for blogs, website content, and a bit here and there.

Content that was. I understood that would be challenging considering it would need huge research. We would need to understand the formats or specific universities and how we need to make a perfect thesis paper for people who want to appear in their Ph.D. exams. That was a topic about psychology. I started doing that and it took me around 20, or 25 days to complete the first one.

but the most important part was that it was about psychology. And because of the research that I did, made me understand how powerful psychology is. And then my marketing brain started thinking that if it is so powerful, can we use it in marketing? Can we persuade people as it's working, as we understand how people's brains work?

Can we leverage it in the market? I started using it for different campaigns that I was running. I started seeing great results. Then started enhancing, doing my own research in neuromarketing trying to understand how big companies, I mean, going back to even, let's say Coca-Cola, how they had been using submental, Persia, how they are using persuasion triggers from ears and they have been getting successful.

We as humans always get impacted by it. And we don't even realize, I mean, to an extent where even after I know most of, I won't say most, but yeah, a lot of principles of how human psychology works, I would still get impacted because that's deep-rooted in my subconscious. So that got me hooked. Then in 2016, I started.

Putting out content in regards to marketing psychology in various communities, where I was part of training sessions that I was part of. Because at that time I realized that nobody, nobody was talking about how psychology can be implemented in marketing. What neuromarketing is, yes, there were few good marketers or, I mean, apart from big brands, there were few good authors who have written, who have revealed research on persuasion, but nobody was from.

Nobody, no marketer, no brand. Nobody talks about how neuromarketing can help. So I started giving out knowledge and started explaining to people how it can be effective. Did a lot of experiments and showed them the experiments as well. Then considering all of that, I thought it's time for, you know, me to bring some more awareness, to give some more push.

So all of the research that I did from the time I started till 2018, I correlated in a. And that's when psycho marketing came out.

I mean, psychology is everywhere. Yep. And when it comes to marketing, it's the same thing. We are persuading people to buy things from us, or do certain actions such as lead generation or registering, or whatever the objective of the marketing campaign is. We are persuading people to take some action.

Those are people too who we are reaching out. So rather than making digital marketing, I mean, talk about digital marketing. Rather than making digital marketing, 90% are about digital and 10% marketing, which also is a problem that I have seen in the industry. It's a combination of understanding the core basics of marketing, understanding the way, and how human psychology works and then leveraging it.

That's what digital marketing is. And I mean, if you talk about just marketing, marketing, that's a perfect combination of your art and science and the science heavily relies on psychology.

 Aashish: Understood. So we all understand this because yeah, we have families, we have friends, we have girlfriends, we have partners and we know how to build those relationships.

But when we get to the business end of the scenario, we forget that the same formulas can really work on this side as well. What is the difference that let's say when you are a brand trying to, let's say, connect with your customers? What are the basic psychological things that one needs to understand?

 Saurabh Choudhary: First thing that I would say is to understand your audience's thought process.

And when I talk about the thought process, I mean, the pain points of the audience, considering your product are the. I'll give you an example. Let's say I am a brand that sells weight management supplements, now I may persuade people to think that, okay, my product is good. I'll talk about a few things about the product.

My product is all-natural or whatever the USP of my product is. I'll keep a great price point. I'll give some nice discounts, I'll run ads and I'll get people to buy. What we need to do here is to take a step back and start thinking like this. We need to understand that before we or our customer buys anything.

There are objections, and there are pain points, that they want to be addressed. So with this example, if we talk about a weight management supplement before people buy it, they would have questions going on in their heads. For example, will this work for me? Will I have to take it forever? Will there be any side effects?

Will I have any lifestyle changes? So these pain points are nothing more than their questions, which when left unanswered become objections and that's when people do not buy. So we need to understand what are the ways in which people may have a reason not to buy from us. What would be their concerns?

When we understand these concerns, it's easier for us to make them understand. I mean, if, let's say I am taking the same example, if I say that my product is nonaddictive,  there are no side effects. And it has worked before by definitely showcasing some shows' social proofs by having a good audience feedback review management system, which somehow proves that we have worked and our ingredients in this product are beneficial.

So that builds trust towards them. Building trust towards brands works in how we are able to understand and acknowledge those pain points. The second point, what's that DTC brands should understand is to make it relatable to the customer. We need to understand what people want and add, or any communication that goes out from a brand people should relate to is easy talking to me.

Is it something related? So we need to break down our strategies into specific, let's say age groups, regions, or various other segments based on various attributes of audiences that will make sure that our communication, our process, and the whole user journey that we are building around our marketing strategy is relatable to people.

 Aashish: Where is this data sitting in the DTC stack?

 Saurabh Choudhary: You will have to combine data for your platform. Let's say Shopify, commerce, Magento, whichever platform you're using. There are certain data that you get from there, which shows the user behavior on the website.

With that, we add on to heat maps, which helps us understand specific areas of users which are troublesome, which are performing better, or where the major drops dropouts are happening. Then we also add on the data using Google a. Which also gives a deep, insightful understanding. And thirdly, we have a platform from which we are trying to acquire the audiences.

So combining all of these data, make some meaningful format of your data, which you can have a look at and understand what insights each number is giving to you. If you are seeing your two cart rate is less than 10% giving an example, let's say your two cart rate is less than 10%. Then your conversion rate, actual conversion rate comes to let's say one and a half percent or 2%.

So that way you understand that. Okay. My add-to-cart should have been higher. The problem is that after adding to the cart from checkout, the purchase is standard based on industry and can be improved, but that is at least better than what I'm getting in. so that I really understand exactly where it's working and where it's not working.

And if it's not working, why it's not working, we deep dive into it by understanding heat maps, by understanding from which source, what is working, and what's not working. So here numbers will tell us the story, which we need to understand, not just that. Okay. My conversion rate. take a step ahead and understand why it is, it is what is happening or what is not happening based on your audience.

 Aashish: Can you highlight some real-world examples around that front?

Saurabh Choudhary:

I'll give you one example. It was for one of the financial clients that I was working with ears back, so that client wanted to introduce a new product in the market, which was. Tiny home loan kind of thing. I mean, 10, 15 lack of loans. They used to give to people and the audience that they cater to was low-income growth.

People who used to have separate, I mean, specific small shops on the road. People who sell vegetables and vegetable markets, people who have small stores, general stores, or something. Those are the kind of people who they were reaching. Now for them, they wanted to build a new website here. The first thing that we needed to understand was what level of savvy those people were and what kind of phones they were using.

That was the simplest of the things we wanted to understand, to ensure that the website that is being built for those people, which they will be able to use to apply for the loan has to be based on their under. In marketing terms, we call things idiot, proof by idiot proof. I mean, even a small kid or a person without paying too much attention should understand.

Similar things work on your user journey and the website is a very impactful aspect of a very big aspect in terms of the user journey. We need to understand the behavior of our audience. What helps? I'll give you another example. One of the brand's telecom providers in the Maldives wanted to come out with an  IPO now, a Muslim country where people don't believe in investing in making trust money.

How will you convince those people to invest money? That was a huge challenge for me. Me and my team. We went to MALDI. We stayed there for two weeks and 80% of the time, all we did was sit in different cafes, restaurants, and public places, and tried to analyze people. What are they doing? What are they talking about?

What is the common conversation that you will hear around? What is happening like in India, you talk about politics, cricket or. So similarly, there were certain traits that we understood. We understood that those people may not be interested in investing in earning interest, but they are interested in doing something good for the country.

People want to do something which helps society, which helps them. So the whole marketing campaign of this brand was wrapped around how this brand, once it goes public, how it'll impact the country along with how it has already impacted the country and did better for that worked very well.

 We oversold. 

 Aashish: Yeah. I mean, this is a great example. Be that voice for your customers wherever they are.  If they're talking about your brand, please listen to them. If they're talking about your industry, listen to them. If they're talking about your products, listen to them.

 Saurabh Choudhary: They're talking about DTC brands as well.

 Aashish: So how do you DTC brands go about getting customer feedback?

 Saurabh Choudhary: See for me as well, when I started understanding how psychology works, how marketing can be implemented using psychology. There are so many principles. There are so many thought processes, which come to your mind when you sit and work on a strategy.

Should I go for, let's say formal? Should I go for creating scarcity? Should I go for just value addition? What would, how should I practically use it? Making it very simple for a DTC brand. There are five steps to a purchase decision-making process for a buyer. We all go through that every single day. The thing is we do not realize it because that happens so subconsciously.

So if a DTC brand understands these five steps of the purchase for their customer. use it efficiently. Obviously, there are other principles when it comes to communication. What communication, what platform, what frequency, and how to take them ahead comes into play. But the core remains these five steps of the purchase decision-making process.

Now let me ask you a question. Let's say the most recent time you went out and purchased shoes.

What made you buy the shoes that you are wearing? I mean, there would be a moment when you thought, okay, let me go for this. I'll leave. Rest all. I'll buy this.  Sure. If there was a certain trigger that happened in your mind, right? That's a conversation, sorry, conversion. That happens. Okay. That's the fourth step of purchase before this, you must have seen different brands checked out.

Different options. That's the third stage going back, let me start from stage one. The first step is where we understand the need, where it's needed identification that is okay. I want to, or I need to buy this. You decide that that happens. The second step is you look out for options, and the solution to the problem that you are facing, what are the solutions.

The third is when you contemplate these solutions and find the best fit for you, it can be based on your budget. It can be based on your preferences. It can be based on various different emotional and logical factors that come into play.  The fourth is conversion where the actual per purchase happens. And the fifth is where it's either buyer remorse or buyer's delight.

So these five steps are what we need to understand and take the user through these five steps by having specific communication, and a specific strategy for each step.

 Aashish: I have a very personal example to share. I was looking at Nike and Adidas the other day when I wanted to buy shoes but when I went to Instagram, I'm a nature lover and I got this really interesting ad from Neeman's.They did a very interesting ad where they're hugging the tree, right? They're showing the importance of nature more, and they're showing the importance of why you need to be reminded of that every day and they're doing that through their shoes.

And for me, it became a very great connection that, Hey, why haven't I thought of buying? a green shoe still now because I'm a nature person. It triggered that thought but I didn't buy it right away. It took some time. I got distracted the second or the third day again, they sent me a trigger, right? Thanks to retention marketing. And it threw me again, this very motivating factor on what they are doing to the planet out there through their initiatives.

That triggered me to go immediately. I got the color that I want because it really connected to me. And then the next day, pretty much I got the shoes and I'm wearing them as we speak right now.And when somebody asks me, this is interesting. What was the story behind it? What was the thought process behind it? Why are you wearing these shoes? Why are you wearing these shoes? Then I get reminded. This is how marketing works.

 Saurabh Choudhary: So here also they have worked wonderfully using psychology. So what happens? I was speaking with one of the brand owners, for a couple of days. He asked me if I have seen some brands, that specify in their stores that they're working towards this social benefit. Some brands work for abandoned dogs.

Some brands like Neeman are working for the environment. They're all products made from products that otherwise would have been wasted, so the core impact that it creates. Now, as you have bought Neman and you are an HR. I'm sure. Subconsciously you've got a trigger that by buying these shoes, I am adding a bit towards the actual cause that I have.

Exactly. So it's not just related to the cause. It's like, you are not able to do that actively, but as that brand is doing actively, you are buying, you are doing some part of your responsibility there. Definitely. So that's how psychology comes into play.

 Aashish: Gone are the days when I look into a 30% discount ad and go and buy those shoes.

 Saurabh Choudhary: I always say that the price of the product is just one pain point of people. There are many other pain points, many other concerns that we need to address. 

 Aashish: Awesome. Great. So, so yeah, going back to the five different strategies that you were talking about, right?

 Saurabh Choudhary: Five, five steps of user purchase, decision making process. 

 Aashish: So let's try to understand, okay. In each one of these   can you point. Some of the proven things, right? What you have  implemented for the brand.

 Saurabh Choudhary:I'll give you one very specific example of this. I've used this for one DTC brand that is into nutrition.

Second, a flood of brands coming out, selling immunity, health, and whatnot, like too many brands in the market. Obviously, it is huge. But still, a consumer would see three to four different brands reaching out from, the same industry every day. So how do we do that? So for that, the basic way in which everybody else does that, okay.

We'll run a top-of-the-funnel ad, introduce the brand, introduce the product, and then gradually we'll bring them to conversions. That's step three of the user decision-making process where one, they already understand that they. some, have a problem with sleeping. They already understand that they have to take supplements.

And these are the two big filters where most of the audience goes out. So till the time you reach the third level, the third pointer, you have already lost so many potential customers who may have understood and bought the product. So what we did, was we broke down our campaign into all these five. The first is to make people understand what they need.

So people who are searching for me feel lethargic all day, I have low energy all day. My productivity is low. I'm unable to perform in the best way possible. And I  have headaches. I have chronic fatigue. So for that audience, we raised it with her blog article, which talks about why this happens.

Why are you feeling tired the whole day? Why is productivity listening day by day, even when you want to work? No. Talk about products. No. Talk about brand PR value driving there. We take them from being clueless to understanding that okay. It's because of sleep. Because I'm not able to sleep properly. There is some problem.

I'm not able to sleep. People sometimes don't even realize their pillows, their beds, and various other things are problematic and they keep them away. So they may not be actual, able to relate to that. They are not able to have proper sleep. They are having these issues. So from symptom to cause in the first step, then people who interacted with this at the first step where they understood it's because of sleep,  then came the second reach out where I talked about these ways in which you can get better sleep.

So they're along with others, as in food and diet, yoga, and workout in your sleep environment. We also added sleep supplements. Can. And how they can help. So small, subtle, but efficient focus on sleep supplements still again, no talk of the brand. So what we did in these two steps, is we reached out to a huge number of audiences who are untapped by any competitor, eventually, your cost per reach, your cost per engagement, and bringing those people onto your website into your funnel is really, really.

Secondly, without talking about the brand without trying to sell them, I am adding value first. I'm educating them first. So what happens that builds the brand as a thought leader, the brand perception becomes as this brand knows stuff they're trying to help me. I  am able to get help. So when what happens is whenever even a person or a brand, guides you on something, they teach you something that you have a problem with.

You want to know your thought process. It automatically elevates their living. So you became, you become the authority for them. So that's how I place the brand as an authority in this industry at the third step where people now have decided that, okay, they want to go with this sleep slot payment. That's when you introduce the product, that's when you talk about why this supplement is the right solution.

And then taking them towards conversion and through various retention strategies, making them your brand advocate with this, I was able to increase the revenue by Forex. The acquisition cost dropped by 67%. The conversion rate jumped from 1.3 1.35%,  two five plus percent. So it's a long process. It may take you a hell lot of time and energy and effort to put this all in the system.

But once it's done, you will see that you will, you will get a flood of the audience, which is untapped, and that is the audience you are building trust with first. And when you build trust first and then try to sell by adding value first, it sells much better. I mean, there is no question of brand trust missing them, right?

 Aashish: What triggers somebody to buy back from the same store and become a loyal customer for a long period of time?

So you talked a bit of advocacy before you talked about a lot of retention funnels before, so let's dive into how psychology becomes that important factor in retaining your customers and growing your loyal audience.

 Saurabh Choudhary: So one perception that people have in, in, in our dentistry is that people think that if our product is good, people will come back again.

 And those are the people who then eventually turned into people who say, customers are never loyal.

Customers are loyal. If you give them a reason to be loyal, I mean, look around even us. There are some specific brands which we will always look forward to. How can we say that the customers are not loyal? It's just that the brand has not given them enough reasons to be loyal. They're paying money for the product, and the quality of the product matters, but here I have one very famous saying, people will forget what you say to them. People will forget what you will do for them, but they will always remember how you will make them feel.

Yes. Product is there, but apart from product, starting from, let's say the person ordered a product. Before the product reaches. What kind of communication are you putting out there? How you are communicating to them to be ready and prepped up for the product matters a lot. That's the first action where it's your testing.

That's happening. The customer says to place an order. They have paid the money or let's say order cash and delivery, but that's when the ball is in your book. Now, look at Amazon when you order. You keep on getting updates. The product has been packed and is ready to ship. I mean, we used to joke around people and we will start getting messages.

The product has been taken into our hands. Now we are putting the product in a bag. Now, the product is out of the door, we joke around, but that actually impacts people a lot. That information that we are giving just for the shipping gives the audience the thought that with this information, I am having more control.

It's called an illusion of control. The more information we are able to give to the audience, the better they feel they are in control. And that's the first step towards customer delight. Even before they have got the product. Then apart from that, what are you doing to make them excited about the product?

So with one of the brands, what I did is before the product reaches them, I set up an email. It's about what you can expect from the product and how you can use this product in the best way. Possible. Very, very simple, small communication, but it makes them feel excited about it. Yes. I'm waiting for this.

Wow. I'm able to take this many benefits, basically. It's a reminder that, okay, these are the benefits, which you can use. These are the benefits for you with a product that's coming to your doorstep in a few days. So it starts from there then. What kind of value add are you doing? The product has come now based on the kind of product they have bought and the category of product they have bought.

There is a lot more information knowledge that they may be seeking. If somebody is buying let's say rate management supplement again, the same example. Are you trying to add value, which helps them in their weight loss journey or weight management journey? There is so much that can be done, right?

So obviously these people are not just thinking that your product is a magic potion that will instantly change their body weight and bring it to where they want it to be. They also know that it's a struggle. They also know that with having your supplement, they will have to, maybe they have to manage food.

They have to manage their cravings. They have to manage their other aspects of lifestyle. Are you helping in any of those and by helping what kind of education you are giving to them? What kind of awareness are you bringing? What kind of push and motivation are you giving so that they continue in that journey?

Think about it. You are selling a weight management supplement. And on the 10th day when the product is received by the person, it has happened, like three, four days have passed. The product is with the customer. The customer has seen the look and feel of the product and started using it. Can you motivate the person to be consistent in having your supplement, managing their food, managing their cravings?

So for one of the brands, what I did, was I added a 30 days challenge. So on the 10th day, an email shoots out, which says it's a free challenge. We have our trainers. You just have to follow these steps along with the product that you're taking purely for education. So a 30-day sequence was set up where they were also interacting with us.

We used to get their feedback, or what are the changes they are feeling. Different weight measurements, and BM measurements to track things. So that way it helps them stay motivated. And most importantly, it helps them to take maximum benefit out of your product. There would be thousands of people buying your product, but a hundred percent.

People would never use it effectively. So there will be a segment of people who would say this product won't work. They would not realize that they have been eating fried food in the morning and evening. And like, they are not doing anything else just by taking your supplement, won't help. But then it would come to your product that your product is not working.

So for those segments of audiences or even people who are actively using it, if you help them use it better. It's your product that will get better feedback. It's your brand that will get better loyalty because people will trust your brand. They would look at you, and your brand as a guide. That's when loyalty comes into play.

That's when customers will always remember that this product was wonderful, but most importantly, this brand helped me achieve my goals.

 Aashish: So be the driver of habits.

 Saurabh Choudhary : hundred people in people's this way. Yes. In this example, yes. Habits. There can be other things as well to understand what value you need to add.

I go to various forums and social media, even competitor pages, and various other places where people look for the solution, they are having hundreds of questions in their heads. They're asking them, we just have to listen to those questions. And wrap it around as a value and give it to them.

 Now let's take an example of a coffee product. Okay. Now for coffee, they're not looking for a solution. They're looking for a great experience, a great taste of coffee. Okay. So in that way, what ways can you make them enjoy your coffee in a better way?  Can you help them with certain recipes? Can you help them in ways in which they can make coffee?

 I mean, You know, for a normal person for like coffees coffee, there is not too much of technicality, but ask any coffee level, they will tell you what way in which you make coffee is better

at home. Compare a drip coffee that you, then, pour-over coffee that you make. These days, you see drip bags for a lot of coffee brands versus a coffee that you take a spoon and put in your mug and mix it with.

There is a huge difference. People who love coffee, understand it. They love the kind of grade of coffee that's being used. The level of caffeine is the process in which the beans have been roasted. It all matters to those people. So can we educate our customers in that way? Can we help them make great coffees for them?

Yeah. So for, for one of the coffee brands, what I did, I mean, I, I made them understand that see, it's not coffee, coffee, you, you want to sell coffee, but coffee is never just coffee. Coffee's an experience. If you, how do we say coffee dates? You meet your friends over coffee. You go for dates over coffee. You, you do your work meetings over coffee.

You try to look energetic for your work through coffee. So coffee. Loaded with various emotions. Can we make that a great experience once people buy it? Imagine one of the communications that go to these coffee purchasers, how you can have a coffee party at home with your friends while you make some different, wonderful coffee, with some nice recipe.

It may, it may not be a huge impact if you think of just a person too. But psychologically, it's giving them a reason to have some good times. And then apart from these, there are various other ways in which we can help retain customers. Are we making them feel special?  , let's say a customer has bought once they are your buyers.

Consider a scenario where you as a brand are giving 15% off to every customer. Every. You offer 5% more to your customers who are already your customers. Let's say even 10% more to people who have bought it repeatedly from you not justifying that. It's just a discount. Just to give you an example, we need to make them feel special that they're our customers now considering a real-life scenario.

You are out in a market and you just visited a store, a physical store. You wanted to buy, let's say this jacket, okay? If you went into a store, the person would treat you as a normal person. They will give you whatever discounts they have a special offer or whatever they have to offer. Right? Compare it with the store where you go usually, or where you have been before they will talk.

They will talk to you differently. They will, they may be different. Even if they don't have offers the way they talk to you, and the way they communicate will be different. Hmm. So you will, you will feel a bit happier than okay. I am at a place where I'm valued. I have been to this place before, so they acknowledge me.

so that way are you making them feel special?  that is one thing. Are we able to relate to what they have bought and like what product, what category they have bought? What kind of community? The next pointer is you as a brand. Are you listening to those people? Yes. Customer support is one side.

That's also a big impact. But apart from that, are you listening to your audience, your audience? Maybe. Now one of the examples I will give is, let's say we talk about coffee brands. Again, as a coffee brand, I'm offering the dip bag for coffee. Okay. Somehow my customers have told me, obviously, not directly, maybe on social media, maybe through various conversations, by emails or chats or support that we have been getting, that that's not a good way, that they're not able to get a good experience.

So I change it and create poor over bags for them. Or maybe I sell something bigger. Now people want to take, take, and carry with them. Okay. People want to carry coffee with them. So that's when the brand introduced the smaller pro smaller packaging. These are very small examples, but as a brand, you need to listen to your customers.

Are they feeling listened to, and are you able to adapt according to their needs and requirements? They may be saying they may not be saying it's you who has to understand your customers.

I would say the whole retention market should revolve around 80% value addition in 20% promoting your products offers and new launches and even brand because that's relatable. On all of these various platforms, what kind of communication would work better for my customers? I mean, we cannot keep on sending and sending promotional messages on WhatsApp or text messages. Yes, there is. It's on growth, but keep it towards transactional barrier  value addition, your long conversation, where you want people to engage more than still on email, it still works.

 Aashish: Use technology be informed, but in the end use emotions to connect.

What's the one myth that you wanna break in the marketing world today?

 Saurabh Choudhary: So I won't say that's a myth. That's actually practiced in the industry now.

Pick any performance marketer or an agency or anybody who is into DTC or any other industry that does not matter. But the moment we talk about that, okay, now we want to maybe launch a new product, maybe create a new strategy. So any action that has to be started. The first thought that people get is, okay, these are the platforms that we want to reach.

These are the communications we want to send. This is the funnel that we use, and this is the budget that we'll spend. I always say, take a deep breath, take two steps back, and spend a few days just to understand your audience. The more you understand your audience, the more you will understand their thought processes.

The more you will understand their behavior. Their psychology. They trigger what moves them and what stops them. Yeah. That is what needs to be done before we even think that, okay, this, these are the platforms where I have to go. These are the communications that I have to send out. Yeah. And this is the funnel that I need to build.

How well do we know our customers? I mean if I ask a brand a question, let's say, tell me, which of your products is selling maximum. And out of that, what age group of people is buying from which platform they have bought? And what is the average number of times they have communicated, or let's say visited your website, and engaged with your social media before they made a purchase? They don't have a clear answer.

I want to give you one example. In 2017, I used to run a  community. In that community. One of the most asked questions is whether Google is better or Facebook is better for us. And not just in my community. I saw that at so many different places, people used to ask me at various conferences where I was going to meet anywhere, even in webinars, people used to ask that, okay, which is a better platform, the answer to this, and many other questions.

We as marketers have to be unbiased towards a platform for a kind of communication. I mean, yes, budgets and restraints are there, but we need to understand it's our audience who's going to decide which platform they're on. What kind of communication makes them engage? What kind of communication persuades them? And eventually ahead, what is there? yep. Leave those things to your audience.

 Aashish:  Awesome. Thanks a lot Saurabh. I think that was a great conversation with you. It was a pleasure being here. Hope you got some great insights into how you can leverage psychology for your marketing.

Feel free to reach out to the Saurabh Choudhary on LinkedIn. We will be having him soon again in some podcast. Thank you so much.